Episode Transcript
Helvetiarockt is a Swiss national association raising awareness about gender inequality in the music industry while supporting promoting and connecting professional female inter non-binary and trans artists. Through its grassroots projects such as producing, DJing, band workshops and songwriting camps, it offers platforms for young people of all levels to discover music and be part of an empowering community find out more on our website helvetiarockt.ch, sign up for the newsletter and follow us on social media. Musicians in Conversation is sponsored by SUISA The Cooperative Society of Music authors and Publishers in Switzerland SUISA is celebrating its 100 year anniversary in 2023.
[Music] hi everyone my name is Natalia and I'm a presenter content creator and DJ in this episode I speak with Jackie Brutsche aka Jack Torera who is a musician, filmmaker, visual artist and performer. Her band the Jackets also provide the music for this season's podcast. We discussed the loss of her mother during childhood and how that inspired the personal documentary film Las Toreras, the importance of creativity in her life and her experiences as a fully independent artist Jackie shares two songs with us and answers an audience question don't forget if you have a question simply send a direct message to Helvetiarockt on Instagram, in the meantime here's my conversation with Jackie
hi this is Jackie Brutsche and you're listening to Helvetiarockt Musicians in Conversation
Hi Jackie thank you for joining me on musicians and conversation, hi thanks for having me that's my pleasure I'm going to get started with this interview with the question that I ask everybody and that is how did you get started on your musical Journey. For me music and my life goes always together it was always like reflecting what face I was and I see music like in the beginning you kind of you're surrounded by the music that people listen and for me I when I was really young it was Heavy Metal my brother my older brother listened to have a heavy metal where I was wearing boots and leather jackets and everybody had long hair and AC DC Aerosmith like what I'm saying like with eight nine ten years old yeah really but I also what's really important it's kind of that we grew up in a very sad environment me and my brother because my mother was had was mentally ill and music was for me always like something to come for me or to help me kind of and heavy metal this dark thing it was a world that I kind of it helped me to understand these things or to find something and so I listened to the music because I heard they also have something sad or yeah we lost our mother actually and so it I had a sad start into my life was this when you were quite young yeah she committed suicide when I was 10. but you know it's a very early age but now I look back and it's a long time and it was always connected with music and to find something to express something that inside has to come out yeah and so when I was in my teenage time I discovered the squat scene and I was totally into punk it was more political and having a message and I left home I was really rebellious and I lived in a squat in the biggest squat of Zurich in Wohlgroth and it was a punk baby and there and you know there I found this world where other people had also like stories and it was allowed to have your story and express yourself let it out it was really an incredible place with concerts every day five concerts bands coming from all over the world and play there and I was getting involved and I was 15 16. oh my God what ways were you getting involved it that was so great right because you could yeah it was working behind the bar or setting up helping setting up the stage or it was you know everywhere cleaning stuff it was like a micro Cosmos yeah it was like 120 people living there it had everything space for you know the hippies the skaters the first techno people came in because they needed a place to do their illegal techno parties like the first one yeah it has chess and rock and roll and sports rooms and video and also space for well it's a huge really let's check it out so cool is it still does it still exist no no it only existed for two years but it was like it had a huge impact on me and also my music career because I mean then I just watched every gig and it was for me it was the greatest thing to watch them but I mainly saw a men on stage and I never ever thought that I would play music myself even though I kind of I did learn already the guitar and I was into I was gonna ask that like why did the guitar come into your life when did that happen I mean I said there are pictures with me when I was seven and I built my own little guitar out of wood really trashy like a box with strings on and so there was something obviously and I love to dance and I always did art and I painted and so creativity was for me always something that I can do and I feel comfortable and it's mine while the whole world around me was sad and difficult and it was there already the needs for me also making musically too yeah to yeah I was interested in it for sure but I think yeah you didn't think and you didn't see anybody represented or somebody that looks like you on stage at this time so how did you get to that point where you were like that's my space as well I'm gonna claim that I'm gonna be there yeah so that was maybe I was 20. I already entered art school and I had a friend to ask me a couple times he said hey we have this band please come join us and I said hey sorry but I don't I kind of play guitar or instrument and I said I only play three chords and she said oh that's great I only play two so that makes five and so and she tried a couple times and I always thank her for that really she was really insisting and so there I went to the rehearsal that was a super heavy guitar someone left in this really stinky band rehearsing room and nobody was singing so I sang into this very stinky microphone thank you microphones you know when you said that I can I have a memory of stinky microphones it's so visceral I think most a lot of musicians know that yeah you know so you know one that nobody wants to take with them when they leave the room you know there were all these bands that yeah these roommates is for decades and so and then like three weeks later it feels like I don't know exactly how long but really short after we had the first gig what and all I remember it was it was just like this this energy and this thing inside of me coming out and I had this power and energy and this and I just shouted and screamed and I had this I don't know something happened I had no time to think and the audience reacted and they were like and it was this was the beginning oh my God you're speaking of getting goosebumps I can I'm visualizing just that moment of you coming into this realization of this artist that's within you this performer this stage Persona this person who can command a room I love that when did you discover that you were gonna include different artistic disciplines because you're a filmmaker, you do theater pieces, as well as you know play guitar sing and play instruments I do like your kind of band stuff when did you open up to other forms of artistic expression in terms of performing it and giving out to the world. I mean I always was a visual artist or like painting, drawing buildings sculpture when I entered art school I wanted to become an artist and work with all different tools I always was a bit in the wrong place there was nothing for me with all my interests and all my different expressions or tools I always felt like okay I have to decide for one thing or the world I thought I have to decide oh I'm only gonna do this and I'm only going to do now costumes or because I liked the theater and Performing things so I like to yeah change roles and play with that and tell stories it was always like everything belongs together and but now the world was divided into doing photography, do visual art, do music do only this and you have to make a decision and what will it be and so for a long time I felt just like oh on the pressure I have to what shall I do and I cannot decide but that's what makes you so interesting and so interesting to me because I think so many people can identify with that having a genuine interest but also not just an interest in different art forms but just a desire to do it but that pressure from society to say oh choose one pick one because it's not easy to go against what people are saying or even if they're not directly saying it but they're suggesting it hey why don't you just do fashion or do costume design what was it in you that pushed against that narrative to become where you are now I remember when so I was struggling for example in this I wanted to be in the art school but now I was in the fashion Department I was totally not at the right right I didn't want to become a fashion designer at all but I was interested in creating these figures so I kind of was always rebelling in there too a questioning fashion and I started to making anti-fashion and things you cannot sell for sure yeah you know like tights with hairs on it and I start to make female elvis or fighters and strong women when I started make music and that's maybe answering your question when I discovered music to playing bands I started I saw hey okay I don't like to be in this fashion department or but I can use it for my for in the way I like it so in that time it was all about the these instant bands you know like let's put together the perfect band so I said well I'm gonna design my band and it's a female rock and roll band and so I made the costumes for and I started to print guitars so I kind of started to play to kind of work with their rules but make it my own thing and having fun and in for example in the art I was using music as a theme you know so I kind of started to to combine these things already yeah then I did film school because I needed to I discover you know storytelling and film I can put all everything together and I need more time and then later after I learned so many techniques and then I started to do my one woman show but that was for me like the solution that I create my job a makeup show where I do I write a story I do the costumes I perform I sing I write the songs I played completely independently I can push the buttons the technique so I can be my own show on the road you know and I can play not only in theaters but on the music stages absolutely so I can tell a story on the music stages so that's how I kind of progressed or how we've developed yeah
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[Music]
one thing I'm really interested in is how you describe because we're talking about now your one women show how do you describe to people maybe even bookers or these venues that you're working at who you are and what you do because I think that there's some people who might have difficulty you know they know that they're expressive they know that they're artistic they know that they have these tools across the genre and across disciplines but then figuring out how to explain to someone book me because I do this it's not straight up like oh I'm gonna play a song how did you find the words to describe what you do for sure there was always a big subject or because it makes it more complex more complicated to yeah to say who you are and what you do but I say I'm an artist and then I say what I'm doing and it's also you know I'm not doing always everything together right so I have my project and then so I'm a musician and with my bands and if I'd have to talk to the bookers or so then I'm the musician and but yeah I'm a multi-disciplined artist but it was a long time that I felt like oh I'm the problem you know or you know I don't fit and I'm happy to see that now it's more more normal and finally it's kind of everything is yeah mingling and or it's its view as something normal I like when I looked at your website it was super clear like you mentioned you've got your projects you've got your bands you've got your theater pieces you've got the documentary which we'll talk about I like the fact that for someone coming in I could just see this is all you how did you arrive there yeah it took it took really long time especially when you say the making the website because I mean this is like a lot of artists that don't have a website or my friends or this since a long time they say I would say oh no and why and so but for me it was a really important process to kind of really say yeah who am I it was it was very important for me to kind of yeah present myself as an artist and explain my complex way of working for me what I really do is I the red thread through what I do is the content there is there is always it's like this yeah identity or art showbusiness there are themes that come back say sometimes it's kind of better to write a song about something and sometimes you have to make a movie right I was so asked like where's the inspiration starts in the process yeah so it's the form can change but the content has a following up for my work you know I started to you know more think about the body and or yeah gender and how dreams nightmares in life and it does is always connected with my story losing my mother early and have an other view on on the society you know how they deal with painful things so these subjects are in my work and they make the one thing and the form can change yeah it was always I like this flexibility yeah express myself differently something yeah absolutely let's talk about your music you are going to share with us your track “dreamer” how did this come about sometimes you have these songs that just fly to you and I love that idea that they come to you the songs that was exactly what happened with the song with The Jackets we are intensely live band or playing a lie a lot the song that we will always have fun to play it's dreamy and psychedelic but when you played life it's super powerful and fuzzy and it has all these different elements and it's just a song that we I brought it to the rehearsing room and we love it and we played it and so we went to Berlin we worked with King Khan Arish he's a musician's a fantastic artist and a very good friend of ours and we went to live in his house of his beautiful family and went to record in Berlin with his partner Nene and yeah we recorded live live means yeah with all the instruments together and then the overdubs and vocals I love it I love it let's listen to “Dreamer”.
Let's talk about your project your documentary that you're making currently called Las Toreras can you tell us about Las Toreras, you mentioned it's it's connected to your family is it to do with your mother exactly yes so it's a documentary but it has a lot of art in there, there is like a fiction part and a documentary part where I make interviews with my family and it's the research like I said in the beginning I lost my mother she she was mentally ill and had heavy depression and schizophrenia and so since I was 10 we never talked about her anymore and this happens a lot but it was like there were a lot of things that were not clear and mysterious and I didn't understand and but I kind of found a way with the art to kind of with what I knew about her to make something with it and it inspired me actually so I kind of had always this connection with the story of her and it was like a great school and inspiration and it gave me a lot for my life really and so after after like 30 years it kind of came back there were all these things this questions I had yeah and I thought why don't we not talk why we never talked about her and why is it so hard to not deal with with it you know I'm not a sad person I'm a very like a cheerful person or I'm known for that you know I like to have fun and so it was always like I cannot tell the story it's too sad you know it's too sad and who wants to hear it and oh no not the suicide movie but I wanted to kind of I came to a point where I said no you know what I want to be not brave but I think it's just time that I know who she was yeah that inspired my whole life you know and I think she should not be just like forgotten and lost just because it's a painful thing to kind of be like treated like she never existed yeah so this is the film is this journey so I have this art character Jack Torera this is my artist's name but it's also my Alter Ego she's strong she's she's like she has this Sombrero hat and or a cowboy hat and she's androgenous she's strong when I'm on stage I'm Jack Torera you know it's this thing that comes out yeah this Persona comes out so I go with her on this journey and she goes kind of into this desert emptiness of the Spanish desert and there I go look for my mother and I kind of there is an encounter so in art I kind of meet her and yeah it's it became really beautiful but it was an incredible huge challenging project I can imagine especially when you are delving into yourself and your own personal experiences and your family's experiences were you ever met with kind of like resistance to talk about it when you when you approached your family surprisingly not really I mean and that's that's something that I learned that you know like you think or maybe it's because I was so young and a kid and you know the adults there was there was adult stuff yeah that you know we knew that we it's not us to know about things yeah you know and maybe this led to the this idea that we don't ask questions and but when I really and then finally asked questions and I came up with 30 years later you know everybody said of course we’ll tell you what we know about your mother that's one thing but yeah there are things that that the Spanish didn't know and the Swiss people didn't know right you know so there is it's like one person's life and it's divided into one is a Swiss half of her life you know that when she moved to Switzerland yeah and one is in Spain so and the two families didn't know about the other and there are like her diaries and and so I discover a lot of new things and so the story is looked at very different from Spain and Switzerland so I kind of go and I enter in a huge weird situation that yeah everyone has a complete different perspective on the story you know it's not it's I mean it's like a huge discovery that I make in the movie I love the fact that you were able to take this journey because sometimes I think it speaks to so many people's own personal experiences of loss and especially under the circumstances as well that for you to be able to take this journey for yourself and use your art to reconnect with your mother and her story it's just wonderful I think that a lot of people will be able to get so much out of it so you know thank you also for for taking that journey. What are some of the challenges you face today as an independent artist and in terms of making a living from your art if any if any because also we can use this as an opportunity to encourage people to perhaps take on the profession I mean of course I mean struggle there are different levels there are like you know like the situation for bands and how to tour or with social media this whole shift this I mean there I can say a lot there is a lot of struggle and challenges what are some of the challenges would you say for the about like social media and stuff is it something that comes naturally to you it’s certainly a point that I've talked about with other artists and I've had many conversations and even I feel myself sometimes it's so difficult oh my god I've got to take a picture now oh my god I've got to document this or yeah you know after you've been somewhere oh God I forgot to take a picture like it doesn't it's not something that comes naturally like what is it like for you yeah it's this it's great to be connected with your audience directly and we like to do the videos and the pictures and so social media yeah this whole like posting and not too much and regularly and it can be overwhelming I just want to know from your perspective what it means to you to be independent and I'm asking because there's a lot I think of young musicians coming in or artists who are really looking for managers or looking for labels or looking to be have some kind of representation for different reasons or maybe it's because for some it's a sign of success or sign that somebody believes in you or but what does it mean to you that you've you've kept on this independent path. I think the the most important thing or what you have is your your show or your music for us for example I think every gig led to next one and that's how we build our own audience you need to find your audience that really likes what you're doing your supporters and build on that we had labels but there were people our friends we know and so we had our show and the art has to be something unique and something if you make it authentically and you have your own thing that means something to you personally then you have independency you know then then you they have something to build on that no one can take away from you but I don't wanna say there are great managers and people you have to find them in the right time also if it's too early you know you have to make this experience first yourself like performing and writing and not too fast I see a lot of bands they are they have an amazing start one year and they're really successful and then they're after three years they hate each other and they are all like they think they're they know everything they're already bored with with the venues that if it's the same one and you know it's or not bored it's not right but it's kind of if it goes too fast you miss a lot for me it was always the this adventure meet new people new places new other bands and grow and become better and figure out things yourself in the studios and this makes you independent you know this whole experience in between and the fast ways is boring you miss the best you miss the best part I love that that is so inspiring
so I have an audience question this one is from at @val_maly_ is there something specific you would have liked to known before becoming independent about being independent like a detail or something helpful that you only figure out during the process. So I think this person is asking for tips maybe experiences from you what would you have liked to have known before your journey of being an independent artist oh definitely it was knowing about royalties and rights stuff I mean when I started which is we played we made songs we recorded and we had absolutely no clue and so when I look back I would say well I have to say I don't know when you learn it and how you would learn it and maybe it was just probably every musician starts like that you just have fun and you have your friends and you write songs together but no like knowing that you know filling out all these SUISA papers you know I never knew for what they were I mean it I was very young and you know we just filled out and they were harassing you the promoters with like you have to fill it out and if not you don't get your money yet so it's basically knowing about the rights and royalties so what if you're going to a bit more detail what what does that mean yeah well that you when you write a song actually you immediately should register the songs I mean they're protected just just by sitting there and yeah but you should kind of say that you made a song and once at least when you perform them not only when you record them but we also when you play a show yeah and sing these songs they should be registered so you're gonna get this money that is collected for you you know that then you have to pay and this SUISA wants to give this money to you and if it's not registered it disappears or it gets lost or it doesn't get to you so this is something for you for some years yeah I just played songs and performed songs and it's one of those things you just don't really think of like you said like you have you're having fun you play music with your friends you're on stage and it's not really the first thing that you think of in terms of doing it's almost quite administrative isn't it but you need to let your music work for you and earn you money like this it's your right exactly to get money from it so usually is it when you perform there's a you mentioned like a paper or a form you have to fill out is that like you'd get that from the promoters normally yeah normally you should get it and if you don't get it you should ask or at least then tell the tell SUISA that you played there and they normally collect it anyways so it's paid anyways but it cannot be paid to you if you don't register your songs and so and registering the song means that you know who wrote what, who wrote the lyrics, who did the which part and then so this is the songwriting part and then there is a performing rights part so if you were are not a songwriter yeah but you performed on a recording you have also right to get money for every time this song recording is performed on the radio or somewhere you have the rights because you are on this recording so this is another thing you also have to register so this is things I just nobody tells you everybody knows so either you're a songwriter or a music performer on recordings you should yeah get your rights together and know what your rights are this is such great information such valuable information because like you say it's everybody probably assumes that everyone already knows but it's not that nobody talks about it so how would you know yeah by by learning the hard way yeah well I hope I hope that people are listening today and can register their music with SUISA and get paid for performing get paid for their their registered music thanks to you for letting us know yeah welcome yeah Jackie thank you so much for your time today thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and your story thank you thank you so much it was a great pleasure really thank you a lot Jackie please introduce the second track that we'll hear from you so now you're gonna hear « Pie in the Sky » by the jackets
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Helvetiarockt Musicians in Conversation is a concept by Natalia Anderson in collaboration with Helvetiarockt. It's presented and produced by Natalia Anderson music is by Jackie Brutsche and The Jackets.
