Lena Brechbühl

HELVETIAROCKT: MUSICIANS IN CONVERSATION SEASON 3 LENA BRECHBÜHL Helvetiarockt is a Swiss national association raising awareness about gender inequality in the music industry while supporting promoting and connecting professional female inter non-binary and trans artists. Through its grassroots projects such as producing, DJing, band workshops and songwriting camps, it offers platforms for young people of all levels to dis-cover music and be part of an empowering community find out more on our website helvetiarockt.ch, sign up for the newsletter and follow us on social media. Musicians in Conversation is sponsored by Suisa The Cooperative Society of Music authors and Publishers in Switzerland Suisa is celebrating its 100 year anniversary in 2023. [Music] Hi everyone my name is Natalia and I'm a presenter content creator and DJ. In this episode of musicians in conversation I speak with live sound engineer Lena Brechbühl. We discuss the positives and negatives of the profession and the relationship between live sound engineers and artists and the importance of vocabulary when communicating how you want your sound to be. W<e also talk about the emotional labor when oppos-ing sexism and sexual harassment in the industry and what more can be done to combat it. Lena answers an audience question and don't forget if you have a question simply send a direct message to helvetiarockt on Instagram. In the meantime, here's my conver-sation with Lena. Musicians in Conversation «backstage» Hi Lena thank you so much for joining me on musicians in conversation how are you today hi Natalia thank you for having me actually really fine I had a really quiet and slowly morning with a lot of sleep and so I'm well rested very good oh I love to hear that yeah very nice I must mention to the people who are listening that Lena has helped me set up my audio equipment never have I ever had the opportunity really in doing uh interviews and all my time to work and to talk to a live sound engineer and use their expertise so thank you yeah you're welcome but you know now the expectations are really high that this audiophile must be perfect I mean Lena did give me some advice and then I did say ah I think it's fine it's fine we'll see we'll see how it comes out, but I take full responsibility but what I will say it was lovely to have that kind of interaction with you yeah you know you know what you're talking about well the decibels and all of these things that went right over my head you know. How did you get started on your musical Journey I don't know as a child I just loved music all the way all the time listen to all the instruments was inter-ested in how a record or like how the music I'm listening to is set up kind of back then I didn't really know what a sound engineer isn't for the sound engineer does even for like a job I mean how did the record get on a record or what's happening on a concert so I just started with what I knew from looking at the stage which was musicians and I got into playing instruments a lot of guitar classical at first electrical and saying a little bit of bass and drums and then it got me to the point where I decided to study music I was in jazz school studying jazz vocals actually and I did my bachelor's but at the same time like when I started this study I we kind of had this ah actually it was also with Helvetiarockt we had this Workshop from a Bandworkshop it was like a female bandworkshop and I think it's still they still do it yeah yeah and so we kind of had a crash course or how to use it yes yeah crash course yes on technical support we were in a club in Zug in Galvanic and it was like a gathering get together from different bands from these female bandwork-shops and there was this female sound engineer when she explained us a lot about sound and it just got me to a point where I was like standing up behind her or on this mix-ing console and I was like [ __ ] this is so interesting I want to know everything I'm on like what is this not doing and what is this one doing and what can I do and oh my God I can like I can have an impact on what is actually going to be loud and what people can hear from what is coming from the stage and it really got me and from this point on it was just at the beginning of my studies and from this point on I really wanted to get into this engineering sound engineering field and I did like internship and other internships and started like doing small freelance jobs and by the end like when I ended my bachelor for me it was clear that I'm a sound engineer yeah I love it can you remember who it was that you saw and the person that you saw Sound Engineering yeah it was Flo Diemer she's also from Lucerne and working in Lucerne and Zurich and with bands and we are still in touch and exchanging on gear or on how to do healthy touring live or whatever like diverse stuff it's almost like a mentorship relationship but big up to Florina yeah big up near because I just wanted a name we need to like support but also just kind of give credit where it's due I love the fact that you are inspired by her yeah what would you say to inspire somebody to become a live sound engineer oh God I never thought of it was like a good profession I don't know. I'm very passionate about it about my job and I love to do it and I think that's key I really don't have a lot of moments where I'm waking up in the morning and I feel like oh I have to go to work oh no but every day it's like why I have to spend or I have this project and I'm going to that place and it's just fun being on the road and going to places and work-ing with different kinds of people and different kinds of gear and just doing it and yeah I'm kind of passionate about it and I think that's just very essential if you want to do it be-cause it is hard it is mentally hard it is physically hard and you will I don't know have to have a very good self-esteem let me say and also sets good boundaries for yourself like it's really not easy a lot of times I don't know working night shifts and just don't sleep enough don't eat healthy and whatever so you really have to be passionate about it if you want to do it and think when you have that go for it. What does it take to be a live sound en-gineer or what makes a good live sound engineer? The main key is to be open, to stay experimental as I mentioned before be open when it comes to gear really want to try new gear and new ways of setting up microphones or just making this band sound good in a loud way loud and you just have to make it louder so you reach the audience and that's the main concept of being a live sound engineer. Like inform yourself what is new out there and but also stay in conversation with other sound engineers you meet on the road or you meet in the clubs and then try to go with their material and try to yeah ask them just about like how they do something and maybe try to adapt it in your way and just be open absolutely. What is the relationship between the artist and the sound engi-neer that's a really good question I'm also thinking about what you just said about like trying stuff like is there a point where like do you have to ask permission from the artist or can you just go ahead and experiment and you know what kind of discussions are you having but first of all just basic the relationship between sound engineer and artists? Yeah it's a really good question I'm asking myself that almost every day on the trip I guess so there are different motivations why I work for a band I have the luck that I work with friends mostly and there we are always in a very open conversation about okay how should it sound live because it's kind of in a way it's a service but in another way also they the band the artists are really glad that you are doing this because mostly they have no idea of what you're doing and I think there is always a compromising like I want to do something in the front and maybe they have like a new setup and I don't know have an acoustic harp going on and I'm like okay how the [ __ ] should I do a harp in a rock set-ting and then kind of you have to compromise okay maybe a harp or something like this so I think in what I'm trying is always staying in a conversation and yeah sometimes when I think this is really important for example okay guys you all have to do in your sound now no wedges anymore because it's just really way easier for me with you doing in here and so like hard on this fact and I'm like just try it please and if it really doesn't please you we can still go back to wedges and so this is something from my position I'm trying to get through but then on the other side when they say okay I tried it and actually really I can't handle it I want to listen to the other ones on stage without having something in my ears then I should and can respect that I can because I mean focusing a bit on In-ears I al-ways wondered is what are they hearing are they hearing themselves or is it more of a focused sound that they're getting so maybe themselves and the guitar for example yeah is it that actually I'm doing a mix for them on the ears like I do a mix for the audience it's kind of the same thing but I mean also on the wedges I'm giving them a mix it's not just like the guitarist will get guitar on the wedges they will get maybe kick because so you have like the beat or he'll he will get vocals for breaks or something like that whatever they want there actually it is really up to them and sometimes I have musicians who really don't care and also sometimes it's really hard for them to put in words what they need so I have to figure out what they need and this is also something to your further question about the relationship I have to the bands sometimes it's a very psychological profession also because you have to be very sensible about their needs their needs on stage also off stage like while touring and but also especially when it comes to mixes so there is kind of a vocabulary they can use in expressing something for example it's not only about okay I need more guitar or more vocals on my in-ear but maybe it sounds I don't know like a box or it sounds like muffy or it sounds like a clear glass or something like this I don't know there are a lot of expressions you could look up but I'm always motivating the musicians to have a known vocabulary and words to express on how the sound feels for them hears for them and kind of try to make words for it because a lot of times I have musicians who maybe didn't make thoughts about these words they're like something is not right and then I'm listening to their mix and I'm like okay what is not right trying to figure that out and I mean I'm also touring with bands since years so by now I know them and I also don't expect them to have this vocabulary and so when they say like Lena you know you know I love it and then then sometimes I'm like sorry I actually don't know but in other times I'm listening to it and because I know them already I kind of know exactly but what you are saying oh my goodness is so important I know that a lot of artists listen to this and I would just like to reiterate that vocabulary and being able to express yourself in a way that can help a live sound engineer understand what you are hoping to achieve is super important yes I mean for me it's also always really nice especially when I have a new band where I'm mixing maybe only one night then I'm really glad when they tell me okay so you know it has it should be like really pushy on the bass and it should have this drum bass feel you can also compare it to something I mean you can say like okay the Baseline should be like really sick like kind of a Dua Lipa baseline or whatever and so I know some-thing because I know this sound and then I know with what to work on yes you can also make sounds with your voice to describe something I mean when you like when you make like boom or one sure or something like this I already know what's I know a little bit and I don't have the expected expectation that you express yourself with technical terms like you know the EQ around 300 Hertz should be like a bit more or something like this or the compression is too much and you can really find other words to describe it and I'm trying to translate it into technical things If you are involved in music as a hobby 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It's a platform for women, non-binary, trans and intersex people in the Swiss music industry. For singers, instrumentalists, bookers, managers, sound engineers, photographers and many more of all levels. It's about visibility, it's about community, it's about empowerment. We invite all of you to participate in the project. For further informa-tion go to musicdirectory.ch What should artists know about the role of a live sound engineer in order to have a better understanding of the job that you do and a better relationship I think it is one point of what I mentioned before of this service kind of relationship it's not only a service I'm doing for them only because they're paying me for my job I mean I'm kind of deployed from the band or paid by the band but it is more like we're doing this together and we are working together on the sound and when I'm on tour with a band this is more normal and natural because we're friends and it's normal to like talk very lightly about these things but when you are an artist coming into a club it's just handle all the sound and light engineers and all the technical stuff with respect and just shake their hands say your name don't expect that they know your name because you're kind of famous or whatever and then be po-lite to them give them a break give them a cigarette break when they need it and don't stress and don't try to be more complicated than it is already. thank you so much I was just I when you were talking I just pointed my finger I was like Bingo because honestly I've seen I've witnessed I've heard a lot of stories and honestly fundamentals can we just respect the people who are working there it's a team effort and it doesn't take a lot just to like you said shake the person's hand say your name intro-duce yourself and just I don't know respect the profession yeah maybe say thank you af-ter soundtrack or after the show thank you for mixing or also when you think somebody's doing a good job you can tell them you can say like you're really nice to work with thank you so much for what you're doing just like what you do with other people too yeah ex-actly yeah exactly brilliant what are some of the main differences to consider when you're mixing in a club versus mixing in like a festival okay is it a huge difference it is YouTube oh my God because like is the is it the environment like one could be outdoor yeah there's indoor is it that sort of thing or that's one thing yes the other thing is the size of the PA and the gear you have and also maybe the biggest thing is the time management because I mean when you're having outdoor solo show of course you have like the whole day or evening or no sorry afternoon for setup and sound check but when you have festivals you have like a half an hour change over which is not even sound check you have like changeover means the other band is taking their stuff away maybe 10 to 15 minutes nah probably 10 you're putting your stuff on stage for probably 10 to 15 minutes and you'll get like five minutes max for line check and you mostly on festivals you you're not even al-lowed to open the PA so you're doing line check on your headphones you never listen to the PA the concert starts you're opening everything and you're like okay this is what I got now and it sounds so stressful yeah it's very stressful it's also really exciting but yeah I mean it's kind of a I said like a nerve kicker or something for one moment I think when you're do-ing two weeks of only this your self-esteem is in the ground because you will never really have a good mix because you cannot prepare it and so you think like oh my God I can't do anything I'm like on these big stages with this crazy big PA lines and like I can't get my mix together but it's not about you it's just about the time thing and I really don't know why they are still doing the festivals like this because the sound is never good because you just never have enough time I mean as an audience member it's very no I don't want to say it's very rare but I think it's my as an audience person it might be more about the environment being with the other fans and that sort of thing rather than getting the per-fect sounding yeah set but it could also depend on the band as well no I think there are two important points which I have to memorize all the time one there's this festival setting and the people are enjoying mostly the company of the other people they are going to the festival I mean I'm talking about these major festivals and the second point is some-thing really sad actually because when you're doing sound people don't really notice what you're doing like I mean there are people who are already aware of like how some things should sound and or maybe when you listen to a record like a lot of times you can tell okay it sounds very different or it sounds better for your feeling or for your ears but most-ly when you're not doing something really wrong nobody really notices what you're doing but when you get something wrong everybody knows everybody knows where you are yeah oh my God that is the thing this is very hard sometimes to understand that I mean there are always people in the audience who think it was really good and sometimes they come to FOH (front of house) like the place where you're mixing desk is and they come and tell you it was really good really good sand and I love this the tone of the snare or something like this and then yeah and then you know okay they really listen closely like they have this kind of feedback but a lot of times you don't get feedback from the audi-ence which is okay it's also just a job but when there is feedback on stage like you know loud noises or whatever something cracking or microphone go is it was broke or whatever and then just everybody knows you made a mistake and that's not good like you can't do mistakes because a lot of people will hear it exactly it's such a weird kind of balance on the one hand of the spectrum, nobody notices you because it's going well but on the other end of inspection something goes wrong or something happens and everyone is like sound engineer excuse me and you know yes they're turning to you to your desk and they know exactly where you are and who you are it's like do I leave you alone but I have a like I think I have a good way how to cope with it because I just tell myself none of them are sound engineers and none of them know what is behind the thing they're listening to right now exactly and there is so much I mean there are so many points of where some-thing could have gotten wrong and most of the time it's not me and so I'm just like calm-ing my nerves and saying like just do the job yourself and you know it's not that easy yeah exactly When approaching an event what is one of the what's the most important thing that you're trying to achieve whose needs comes first is it the artist's needs or is it the audi-ence's needs needs in terms of sound in terms of sound like what is on your mind is it like I want this audience to have a great sound experience or is it I want this artist to really feel like they're they're [Laughter] like because you can hear what I'm smiling it's because actually I'm doing the sound for me yes I love your honesty come on because I mean it depends like we talked about before it's about making compromises with the bands and also checking that like the sound is what the band wants to sound loud on a stage yeah and so whenever I can have this conversation with a band I'm really doing this for the bands of course never mix for the audience I don't care about the audience sometimes I even hate them because they're just really loud and they're screaming and I mean I'm in the audience when I'm mixing and I'm like don't scream so loud and especially don't whistle it's just [ __ ] loud in my ear I can honestly I'm a Whistler Lena okay Natalia no no you can but maybe look around first if the sound engineer is next to you when he or she is next to you maybe don't whistle. Sometimes I don’t like approaching this subject in terms of when I'm speaking to a guest uh really highlighting your gender you know the fact you're a woman in a male-dominated industry sometimes it's just like all right let me just get on with my work kind of thing but really I think that anyone can see especially in your industry that they're just aren't as many women like it's very quiet obvious like I know personally one other woman sounds engineer live sound engineer so first of all it's great to meet you as well but because of that there could be a sort of environment of like sexism and that sort of thing have you ever personally experienced sexism in your work Yeah almost every day actually wow when I'm in a production on a gig doing my job and experiencing sexual harassment I want to get this conversation started of this is just not okay what you just said but it's a lot of emotional work it's care work I'm doing besides doing my job as a live sound engineer it's always a decision for myself do I get into this conversation do I have to be the one having this conversation just because they see me as a female sound engineer and so sometimes I'm really just oh my God let me do my job and I really don't want to discuss this topic especially when I don't have the energy when I haven't slept for a week like or whatever I just don't feel like having the conversation but because it's just not my job always to have this conversation but still I have this expecta-tion from myself that I am all also here doing this job and this is an opportunity to start the conversation with the people who are apparently just not in a little sense aware of what it means to be a woman in this industry. A little sentence they meant like just on the side just really gets me because it's just not okay like everything that is kind of linked to my gender is just not okay and this is what the people don't get and a lot of times when I ask them like okay how the [ __ ] did you even mean that or why did you just say that and would you also say to a man or if I was a man and when I ask these questions I'm just al-ready so emotional about it and a lot of times they just don't understand they are like okay why are you already so like already are on this high level of rage and I'm like today it was the first time but you're just not the only one telling me especially when I'm like for a month on the road and I hear it every day I mean after a week I'm just so fed up and I'm sorry for the people who just said it one time that I'm already raging that hard but it's just not okay like every single comment you do you are on the road you were doing your job day in day out coming to different places different venues and somebody having a re-mark that is a sexist remark or some sort of type of harassment it's just not okay you are just trying to do your job but it's almost like you are the one who is expected to educate the people and that is a burden that is labor which you shouldn't have to do how can we have these discussions and what can even maybe the bands or the crew the people that you're working with what can they do to create an environment where these re-marks and these conversations are not acceptable, what do you think? I mean first of all I have to free myself from the thought that it is my work that I'm doing or that has to be done just because people maybe say to my face because of they see me as a female gender which for a long time I thought that it was my discussion because it was my life but feminism or just like this how you say is equality is not a thing that is affecting women I mean it's a thing affecting the society so everybody should fight for it and it's not my time to do that alone and I think for me that is the first realization that I had that even when I'm the only female in a production with production I mean the crew and the band and the whole thing coming together for a show even when I'm the only female it's not my work to do it can be when I feel like it when I have the energy for it but I need support from the whole production and so what I expect or wish from a production is just that they are aware that people are commenting me on my job and on the profession I have and I want them to listen to it not to listen away and to stand up for me not only like touching my back and saying I'm so sorry this happening to you but standing just next to me just listening also that's all already making an impact to the other person especially when there are four or five people standing behind my back and listening to this person talking and but then also I want them to have the word and to raise the word against these people and not to defend me but to say something against this person that this is just not okay and it's not about me personally as Lena it's against just all the people who are not there that this person discriminate discriminated with the sentence this person just said. You studied live engineering I think I'm doing a school right now yes because I'm thinking I'm wondering I'm I mentioned that because I'm wondering if at the level of even the studies you know for people who are entering into the industry if there's like some kind of section or semester where the discussion of gender equality and sexism in the industry could be had at that level they get a chance to you know learn all technical things but also the social aspect of it all yeah that's a really good point actually this is a process which has started now because there are not a lot of female doing this school last year there was no female the year before there was one the year before it was also one or none and now this year we are four which is really a lot like we are four in 24 wow but still it's a lot and I'm really glad that these three other women are there in this class and it's really bonding like with them like we're bonding and it's just very empowering having them in the class, but you know our teacher they they're not aware I mean we have like two people maybe who are using gender neutral language can you say that yeah but the rest no like there are always only male terms and we these four female in the class are correcting them like all the time yes and sometimes like now the male colleagues from the class started it too so it's not only our discussion to have us because it's not, but I mean I think the people who are now studying with us they are aware because we are standing up for ourselves since in class like every time I have a really good feeling about my class-mates now but these are like 20 other people so yeah I don't know how it will be in the next class for example exactly yeah well let's hope it makes a difference as they go out and as everyone disperses onto their professional careers I'm going to move on to the au-dience question that we have for you it comes from at @n.i.k.3000 that's n dot I dot k dot three thousand and the question is very simply what is the best spot to stay at a show, so where is the best place to stand, so this is like you know you've got to tell us should we be next to you that's such a good question and actually there is such an easy answer to it because there is a term for it it's called “The Sweet Spot”. Where is the sweet spot for starters it's in the middle and so you have this Left-Right stereo Panorama if the room is empty you can make a test you can start like always be in the middle from in a line you start at the stage and you walk backwards always in this line from the from the center of the room and then at one point you will hear like the full range frequency power from the system like from the PA and at one point you will just hear eve-rything and then you walk a little bit more behind and you hear like it's it will go away a little bit and that just made this movement with my mouth so it's like go a little away but you will hear that you're kind of out of this sweet spot again and then you will walk in again then you will feel like okay here like the universe is coming together but this is when a club is like really in a good setup yeah so for the very small ones a lot of times they are compromising in sound because of the room and like the shape of the walls but when you're liking middle to small places already there will be this sweet spot in the middle yeah and don't love your descriptions yeah don't stand next to the sound engineer because they're mostly sadly not in The Sweet Spot sound engineers are always in the center but not in the middle like towards the stage like in this dimension in the middle because they will just like take the space from the audience that's also a point where I hate your audi-ence they will compromise the place to give The Sweet Spot to the audience no but you're mostly a little bit behind oh wonderful. I didn’t know that. I want everyone now who's listening to try to find The Sweet Spot I always thought it was next to the sound engineer no sadly mostly not of it I love the inside knowledge we’re get-ting. yeah it's beautiful thanks for appreciating it well listen Lena it's been wonderful to talk to you honestly I've learned so much and I hope that our listeners can really take something away from this conversation thank you so much for joining me yeah thanks for having me I just wanted to add a little thing I don't know if it's possible to comment on podcasts or to write something to it because I just wanted to add to this conversation we had about what can the band or the crew do like to help having this discussion and not to like over-look these comments and reactions which are just sexist on the job and I kind of wanted to open this discussion to like people having ideas and just commenting them or like tex-ting you or me and just I'm really curious about what other people had kind of thoughts on this topic absolutely I think we can put it out to our listeners our audience we've got the helvetiarockt Instagram page and certainly there's ways that people can leave comments and we could have a discussion about this subject it's super important abso-lutely let's do that thank you Lena thank you for having me Natalia If you want to join the Helvetiarockt community or find out more check out the website, sign up for the newsletter and follow us on social media. If you'd like to support Helve-tiarockt you can also become a member or donate and if you like what you heard today please share it with your friends. Helvetiarockt Musicians in Conversation is a concept by Natalia Anderson in collabora-tion with Helvetiarockt. It's presented and produced by Natalia Anderson music is by Jackie Brutsche and The Jackets.